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greg we just wrapped up our interview

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and i thought we had an awesome

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conversation

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i wanted to share it with the skeptical

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audience

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we did part one and we're gonna do a

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part two and i'd love to share both

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parts with them

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so as way of an introduction because we

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didn't really

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plan on completely doing it that way as

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kind of a swap cast kind of thing

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can you let people know a little bit

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more about you know

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who is greg moffitt your background and

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what you do

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just to keep it brief alex if people go

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to legalize dash

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freedom.com you can spell legalize with

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an s or a zed

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they'll find a bio there and that's

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where i host most of my

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current work uh podcast i've been doing

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since 2012's over 300 shows there

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inquiry into life

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the universe and everything if people

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are familiar with skeptico i think

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they'll find a lot

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to interest them there there's also a

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series of free articles

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and um yeah so legalize freedom.com with

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an s if you're in europe with a zed if

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you're in the us

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hello and welcome alex and thank you so

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much for joining us today on

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legalizedfreedom.com

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great to be here greg alex today we're

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going to talk about

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um your new book is going to be out

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shortly

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um it's entitled why evil matters how

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science

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and religion fumbled a big one before we

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dive into that just tell listeners a bit

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about yourself you are of course

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host of skeptical podcast which many

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listeners will already be familiar with

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and just a little bit perhaps about how

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the book came about

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really as just a product of me doing

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these interviews on skeptico

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and the skeptical thing is always i've

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been doing it for a long time

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long long time and it was really just a

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passion project for me like i always

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tell people it was kind of my

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trojan horse for getting a chance

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to talk to really smart people like you

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and like other people and i and i sense

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that same

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you know vibe in your work too is that

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you want to have the conversations

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and you can frame them up however you

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want you know you want to call it a

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podcast you want to call it

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a book a magazine article whatever you

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know you want to have the conversation

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and same with me so

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that's how it came about and then in

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particular this book is really just an

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extension

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why science is wrong about almost

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everything um

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and it's re that's really a book about

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consciousness and how if you

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fall for the scientific materialism

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you are meaningless you are nothing kind

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of

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meme then that is not only you know

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crippling

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philosophically and personally

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but it doesn't make for good science so

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this latest book kind of says if you

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take that

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into the what i call extended

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consciousness realm

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of you know near-death experience

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out-of-body travel

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dmt however you want to go aliens

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wherever you want to go with that

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if you take that into the extended realm

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then you're even more lost if you want

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to stick to this

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you know hold on to this really really

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literal materialist

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stupid stupid falsified idea

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and then the evil thing is just that i

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think

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evil might be our lens you know our kind

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of

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our entry point into waking us

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up out of how ridiculous that is and the

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consequences of

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the materialistic you are meaningless

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idea well as you alluded to

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a lot of your inquiry and a lot of the

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material you produce podcast in

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particular

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you're looking at you and your guests

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are looking at

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the reality through the the these

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overlapping lenses shall we say

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science religion philosophy that many

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people for a long time and still today

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regard as completely

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separate and mutually exclusive in many

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ways

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and of course that's a feeling in itself

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because they're kind of like three

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prongs of the same fork really

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uh in my mind um but you've come up

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against

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this the question of evil multiple times

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as i have

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um call it what you will you know evil's

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a name for something

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you know because we tend to think in

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terms of language we have to name things

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and

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preconceptions about what they think it

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is or what they

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think it is not whether it exists or not

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based just on everything that

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they've gathered um in their mind in

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their consciousness about evil

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up to this point but you said that evil

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could be a lens

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uh there a moment ago and i think i

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understand what you mean it's something

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that

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when you look into it is

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it's almost the other areas of inquiry

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in the three disciplines i mentioned

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they all have their

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their their limits it seems and

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but the question of evil seems to be one

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of those

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issues that's pushing us further

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to look at some of the some of the

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matters some of these overlaps to look

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as

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the whole idea of extended cautions

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consciousness for example

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uh that you speak so much about that

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actually could be

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um it could be the key to unlock this

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particular

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um mystery in itself and it's almost

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like

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these issues come along to prompt us

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it's almost like we're being prodded and

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pushed i've thought this many times

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to to understand more to keep going with

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our inquiry

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and when we're not looking in the right

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place that we get almost like a

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a school child getting a wrap over the

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knuckles you know with a ruler

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by a stern teacher you know like or

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maybe a torch is being shown in another

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corner and we're being enjoying to look

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over here

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so that's what i thought of when you

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said evil could be a lens

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yeah and i'd take that even further

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because i really like

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your point and your analogy about

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overlapping lenses

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and you know there's a really

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interesting point that you made there

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about we have the

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the trident of uh science religion and

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philosophy you know

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and you pointed out how hey how curious

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that is that they

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they want to stay separate and boy i

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mean that has been one of

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i guess my fundamental realizations

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findings in all this stuff is that

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that's preposterous and it's hard to

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believe that that

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isn't somewhat by design i mean there

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are only two questions

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who are we why are we here those are the

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only questions

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think about it in all three of those

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realms science who are we why are we

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here

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religion who are we

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why are we here why would you want to

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separate those why would you want to

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pretend this

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game you know when you get into religion

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that

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it's is it fundamentally intertwined

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with those

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science you know pulled themselves out

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and said hey we're going to rescue you

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from that crazy religion and all the

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rest that

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but the interesting thing about

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consciousness and the reason that you

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and i are both

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so interested in doing do a lot of shows

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on it and like your interview

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recently with bernardo castro his

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consciousness

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as you said is the wrap on the knuckles

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that pulls us back in and says wait a

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minute now

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everything you're kind of making here

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has some assumptions on it

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and ever since you left that old

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double slit experiment which i always

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like to tell people because like this is

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like such a great little entry point

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into some of this stuff double slit

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experiment double slit experiment we all

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know it

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you can stop calling it a double slit

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experiment

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the framing up of that as some type of a

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photon measurement experiment

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it's not it's a consciousness

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experiment that's what it is it's an

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experiment that says

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does consciousness exist is there such a

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thing

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as an observer effect that we have to

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worry about

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and the answer is yes that is the wrap

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on the knuckles

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of science but what science had to do

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really to pretend they're to defend

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their turf and also maybe for some other

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reasons

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was they had to do the shut up and

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calculate thing

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they'll say well no no that's not real

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what it's about look come on let's just

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kind of work out these equations over

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here and see if we can build some

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iphones and stuff like that so

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that's that's kind of that that's that's

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where i'd go with your overlapping

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lenses which i think is

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a much bigger point than uh you know we

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could spend an hour talking about that

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well it's like the placebo effect uh we

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i'm reminded of that when you mentioned

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the double slit experiment it's like

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it's been given a name

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and therefore in science quite often

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does this even when

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it doesn't understand something it names

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it like dark

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matter dark energy okay we didn't know

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what all that stuff was

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it's dark matter well that doesn't mean

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that you know what it is you just call

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it something

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so the placebo effect is this is an

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amazing thing with incredible

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implications basically mind over body

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implications like the double slit

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experiment which by the way if listeners

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are not sure what that is it's a famous

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experiment

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in quantum physics which has been

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repeated again and again and again

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and tweaked and varied and the

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implications are vast

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but it's with quantum physics in general

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it's always been

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not always it has increasingly been

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changing but

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often it's not you know mainstream

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interpretations have been that

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00:10:05,509 --> 00:10:03,519
well there are no implications and if

290
00:10:07,430 --> 00:10:05,519
there are it's purely in the realms of

291
00:10:09,030 --> 00:10:07,440
shut up and calculate as you say

292
00:10:11,110 --> 00:10:09,040
and for me the shut up and calculate

293
00:10:14,949 --> 00:10:11,120
thing is like

294
00:10:17,430 --> 00:10:14,959
would be i don't know like just chopping

295
00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:17,440
vegetables in a kitchen and never making

296
00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:18,240
any stew

297
00:10:21,190 --> 00:10:19,920
it's like just keep chopping vegetables

298
00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:21,200
but when are we gonna when we're gonna

299
00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:22,800
have something to show for this you know

300
00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:24,880
what are we doing this for

301
00:10:29,509 --> 00:10:27,600
and uh and of course they one of the

302
00:10:31,829 --> 00:10:29,519
reasons that a lot of people

303
00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:31,839
um well if they're satisfied with that

304
00:10:35,350 --> 00:10:33,839
is because of the byproducts of a lot of

305
00:10:36,389 --> 00:10:35,360
scientific inquiry you mentioned the

306
00:10:38,069 --> 00:10:36,399
iphones

307
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:38,079
and just think since the scientific

308
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:39,360
revolution and then the industrial

309
00:10:41,190 --> 00:10:40,720
revolution which was able to put a lot

310
00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:41,200
of that

311
00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:43,040
into practice on a wider scale just

312
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:44,399
think of all the benefits you know

313
00:10:50,870 --> 00:10:47,200
material benefits for people's lives

314
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:50,880
and you know health and welfare material

315
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:53,680
benefits uh just our general standard of

316
00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:55,040
living has changed so much because of

317
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:56,240
the benefits of science and

318
00:10:59,910 --> 00:10:57,760
industrialization

319
00:11:01,430 --> 00:10:59,920
but you mentioned the trident that was

320
00:11:04,710 --> 00:11:01,440
your your three is which i like because

321
00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:04,720
with like any trident you go back down

322
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:06,240
the prongs and you get to the

323
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:09,519
the handle which is one it's the three

324
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:11,279
you know it's all one piece of metal if

325
00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:12,240
you know what i mean or whatever it's

326
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:13,600
made of

327
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:17,600
and um i think that the

328
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:21,200
um the the the thing that you said about

329
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:24,160
science rescuing us you know from this

330
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:24,640
sort of

331
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:28,000
religious you know paul of ignorance

332
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:29,360
that is it's all been like about the

333
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:30,800
pendulum swing i've made this analogy

334
00:11:34,870 --> 00:11:31,839
before

335
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:34,880
is that it was a relief to be able to to

336
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:36,720
have the scientific revolution the

337
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:37,760
renaissance

338
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:39,440
just to free up people's thinking and

339
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:41,519
their consciousness and their lives

340
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:44,720
from the sort of the drudgery of living

341
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:48,000
under you know religious oppression

342
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:50,720
but then we have a tendency i think as

343
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:51,920
as a species

344
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:55,120
to ritualistic behavior and

345
00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:57,839
and routine and and ways of seeing the

346
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:58,320
world

347
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:01,440
and going too far you know with one

348
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:02,240
thing

349
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:04,000
um the whole idea of the renaissance man

350
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:05,279
was supposed to be you know scientists

351
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:06,720
philosopher

352
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:08,800
uh you know spiritual dimension as well

353
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:10,959
but i think that kind of got lost so now

354
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:12,880
we've been living in a scientific agent

355
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:15,440
it's been all about that and anything to

356
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,600
do with spirituality at best is seen as

357
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:19,680
a very private matter

358
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:21,839
um religions are just seen as like

359
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:24,560
either just irrelevant or actually

360
00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:28,079
a source of ongoing problems and so when

361
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:30,160
you perhaps try to

362
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:34,240
to bring together some of these um

363
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:36,320
disciplines then people are very

364
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:38,959
resistant because you try and bring

365
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:41,279
a spiritual dimension or some other word

366
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:42,720
let's just say extended consciousness

367
00:12:46,550 --> 00:12:44,720
dimension into science

368
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:46,560
people are worried about god getting in

369
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:48,160
again by the back door oh hang on a

370
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:48,560
minute

371
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:49,920
this sounds a bit too religious for my

372
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:52,079
liking i don't like it you know you know

373
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:53,680
the universe popping out of nowhere from

374
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:54,800
nothing and uh

375
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:57,040
no i don't like the sound of this at all

376
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:59,040
sounds like i used to hear in the

377
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:01,200
in church when i was a kid with

378
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:03,440
philosophy which is regarded as like

379
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:06,160
um a pleasant sort of irrelevance you

380
00:13:09,269 --> 00:13:07,360
know if somebody says oh i'm a

381
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:09,279
philosophy professor it's like oh that's

382
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:11,120
nice you know uh why don't you try

383
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:13,440
earning a living you know what i mean

384
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:14,800
i've met people with that with that sort

385
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:16,800
of attitude

386
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:20,720
um well there was like there's like 10

387
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:21,200
points

388
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:23,680
i'd like to jump on but i gotta go back

389
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,000
to all the way at the beginning because

390
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:28,079
greg your point about placebo effect is

391
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:31,040
so i i think profound

392
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,959
i know for so many people and so many

393
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:34,639
people that listen to my show

394
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:36,560
and i'm sure yours too they get it on

395
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:37,680
one level

396
00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:40,000
but i really think what you're saying is

397
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:41,279
much much more

398
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:45,279
powerful in practice than we realize

399
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:48,240
the placebo effect just take notice for

400
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,440
how it's used

401
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:51,519
i'm just repeating exactly what you said

402
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,040
it's like oh

403
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:55,120
well the results didn't achieve anything

404
00:13:58,629 --> 00:13:56,880
greater than placebo effect

405
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:58,639
or you know what we're finding in

406
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,320
science now is there's a

407
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:02,480
degradation towards the level of the

408
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:05,279
placebo effect right

409
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,360
so we're signing we're finding these

410
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:09,600
major medical studies that

411
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,720
show some miracle drug to be efficacious

412
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:14,560
but the more we test it and the more we

413
00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:16,959
repeat the test it becomes

414
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:20,399
closer and closer to a level of the

415
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:21,680
placebo effect

416
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:24,160
but your the brilliant point you make is

417
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:25,360
that the whole

418
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,320
game is the placebo effect what's

419
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:30,000
staring us in the face

420
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:34,240
is that we've totally uh misunderstood

421
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:36,880
the relationship between mind and body

422
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:38,800
which is really a relationship between

423
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:41,760
consciousness and body right mind is

424
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,480
consciousness

425
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:44,639
because what they will tell you what is

426
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:45,680
embedded in that

427
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:48,639
even when they say mind is body with the

428
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:50,560
fastball that they're trying to slip

429
00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:53,839
past you is that yeah it's your mind

430
00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:56,040
but that's still within the

431
00:15:02,389 --> 00:14:57,600
materialistic

432
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:02,399
scientific framework of your brain

433
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,240
but their own if you unravel

434
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:08,720
logically philosophically let's just go

435
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:09,839
with logically

436
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:12,880
the placebo effect what they're doing

437
00:15:17,189 --> 00:15:15,519
is they're contra they're contradicting

438
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:17,199
the mind equals brain

439
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:19,440
you are 100 a product of your brain

440
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:21,199
you're a biological robot meaningless

441
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:22,000
universe

442
00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:26,480
it is an implied contradiction of that

443
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:29,759
by using the term placebo effect but you

444
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:31,360
are so right that

445
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:34,880
once you label it it allows you to

446
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:38,079
dismiss it step over it say don't you

447
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:39,759
really just want this new iphone

448
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:41,680
let's forget about who you are and why

449
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,959
you're here for a minute

450
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,480
don't you really just want another

451
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,320
netflix streaming i'll

452
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,240
up your bandwidth we'll get you more

453
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:50,560
bandwidth you can go faster

454
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:54,079
so no i i know if you have any more

455
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:55,440
on that because i think it's such a

456
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:57,519
powerful such a powerful point

457
00:16:01,430 --> 00:16:00,160
and it it does lead to this larger you

458
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,440
know i don't want to dance around this

459
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:03,440
because what i'm saying is that there

460
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:06,480
is an underlying conspiracy and a lot of

461
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:07,040
people

462
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:08,560
don't like that term and they

463
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:10,399
immediately get turned off you know i'm

464
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:12,240
like oh my god here we go you know

465
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:15,279
but it's like that is the

466
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:17,680
that is the implication of this is that

467
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:18,320
this isn't

468
00:16:25,629 --> 00:16:21,680
completely organic this languaging

469
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:25,639
this messaging this misstepping

470
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:26,800
misinformation

471
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:30,000
oops always scientifically bungled it

472
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:31,440
again

473
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:34,959
that after a while it doesn't look like

474
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:36,160
an accident

475
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:39,920
and i think part of our you know our job

476
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,600
you and i what we're doing is to

477
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:45,839
probe that and try and pull that apart

478
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:47,440
because sometimes it is an accident and

479
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:48,320
sometimes

480
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:50,800
you know scientists make mistakes

481
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:53,199
sometimes philosophers make mistakes

482
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:56,880
but sometimes there's another

483
00:17:02,069 --> 00:16:59,920
agenda that behind some of this stuff

484
00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:02,079
and we have to make sure that that we're

485
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:03,759
exploring those possibilities

486
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:05,199
because we've been taken down those

487
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:07,120
paths so many times

488
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,799
yes we definitely should explore some of

489
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,199
those possibilities maybe you can

490
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:12,799
start us off with that in a moment and

491
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:14,319
that will take us

492
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:16,240
um if you want to certainly into some of

493
00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:17,360
the material

494
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:19,520
in your book that we mentioned but i did

495
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:21,439
spend quite a long time

496
00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:23,199
i started reading about quantum

497
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,559
implications

498
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:26,559
back in the 1980s and i spent quite a

499
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:28,480
few decades wondering what the major

500
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:29,200
resistance

501
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,640
was to if not acceptance of some of

502
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:34,400
these implications but at least explore

503
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:35,840
them at least look at it again i mean

504
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:37,679
this right across the board

505
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:40,240
from scientists engaged in this work

506
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:41,919
through to lay people reading popular

507
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:42,960
science books and

508
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:45,200
initially as i mentioned it was maybe

509
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:46,480
they're worried that it's some

510
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:48,480
kind of religious connotations in all of

511
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,840
this if we go down this route and

512
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:51,280
explore these things

513
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:53,760
then we're going to have um church

514
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:55,919
people saying aha i told you so

515
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:57,840
or whatever it happens to be though the

516
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:59,760
consciousness is the mind of god

517
00:18:02,710 --> 00:18:00,960
but then i started to look for other

518
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:02,720
reasons and i think oh well obviously

519
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,480
some scientists are worried about loss

520
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:06,480
of loss of prestige they built their

521
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:06,960
whole

522
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:10,160
careers around a certain world view

523
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:12,160
maybe they made some did some pioneering

524
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:13,600
research and that made it

525
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:15,440
won a nobel prize and they just have to

526
00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:16,640
stick to this

527
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,080
and that reminds me of the old adage

528
00:18:21,909 --> 00:18:20,720
about science progressing one funeral at

529
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:21,919
a time but

530
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:24,240
increasingly and i think this is what we

531
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:25,520
definitely have in common

532
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:27,280
i've started to think it must be more

533
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:28,480
than that it can't be that

534
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:30,000
straightforward

535
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,559
um so perhaps you'd like to the point

536
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:34,080
you made just before i started speaking

537
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:34,880
maybe you could

538
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:38,160
get started on some of your ideas there

539
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:41,200
well one way to explore that topic

540
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:44,480
is to look at three

541
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:47,440
interviews that you've done recently and

542
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:49,440
kind of dive into those a little bit for

543
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:50,640
a little bit more because there's some

544
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:53,520
great crossover between

545
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:56,400
your work and mine and i think we'll

546
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,120
wind up

547
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:00,240
in the same place like first off i

548
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:02,240
i i have just a ton of respect for

549
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:03,440
bernardo castro

550
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:04,880
i can't tell you how many times he's

551
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:07,280
been on my show he's a super popular

552
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:07,760
guest

553
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:09,440
i consider him a friend i've met him

554
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:12,160
personally he's a great guy

555
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:14,160
go to his website right now and read his

556
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:16,480
open birthday letter

557
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:20,000
to bill gates congratulating bill gates

558
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:20,320
on

559
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:24,400
thing bill you've been a great

560
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,919
a great gift to mankind the one thing i

561
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:29,760
wish you'd look at

562
00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:32,480
nuclear power a little bit because i

563
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:34,640
think we can get some good clean nuclear

564
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:36,720
power and i think it can help

565
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:41,520
our overall environmental situation

566
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:44,799
bernardo bernardo

567
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:47,520
where have you been buddy have you kind

568
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:48,960
of looked into

569
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:52,000
gatesy there in the corona thing and

570
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:55,440
moderna and his all sorts of his other

571
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:56,559
shady connections

572
00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:58,400
have you looked into his connections

573
00:20:01,190 --> 00:20:00,640
with epstein and the brownstoning

574
00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:01,200
project

575
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:04,960
in his long time interest in that

576
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:07,440
that goes that there's a lot of smoking

577
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:08,799
gun stuff there

578
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:12,080
so bernardo is super smart super

579
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:13,200
intelligent

580
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:16,640
but he's not a conspiratorial guy

581
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:18,400
which on one hand we want to give

582
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:20,159
somebody a badge for that and say oh

583
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,679
gosh you get a shiny badge because

584
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:23,760
you're not conspiratorial

585
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,679
i'll look at it the other way i'll look

586
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:27,360
at it and say

587
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:30,799
if you're closing yourself off to that

588
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:34,799
world view and driving diving deeply

589
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:36,480
into that worldview

590
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:41,280
then you're really going to be missing

591
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:43,840
the picture in a lot of these situations

592
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:44,320
not in

593
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:48,000
all of them bernardo's work is still his

594
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:51,520
phenomenally powerful work but he

595
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:54,640
is going to be blindsided by people who

596
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:56,400
are rigging the game

597
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:59,039
and he doesn't realize it bill gates is

598
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,120
a classic example

599
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:02,640
but i'll give you two more and then i'll

600
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:04,880
i'll kind of let you respond

601
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:07,520
you did a show kind of a one-off

602
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:09,679
one-person show

603
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,960
on david ike and

604
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:14,640
i thought there were so many interesting

605
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:16,240
jumping off points for

606
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:19,520
our dialogue here on that craig because

607
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:19,760
i

608
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:50,080
now let me tell you what he wrote on

609
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:52,080
the relationship between consciousness

610
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:53,520
and science

611
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:56,320
it's brilliant it's the most succinct

612
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:57,280
clear

613
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:00,960
and a crisply written

614
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:04,960
attack on how science as part of a

615
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:07,440
social engineering control

616
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:11,280
ex psyop would be against

617
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:13,919
any kind of extended consciousness

618
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:14,960
understanding

619
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:16,960
right so you can go read that in the

620
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:18,080
interview we did it's

621
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:21,760
it's brilliant go read david ike this is

622
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:22,640
like basic

623
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:25,520
[\h__\h] but how many times have you sat

624
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,600
through mind-numbing discussions where

625
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:28,960
people don't do it

626
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:32,000
that is david ike talking about god

627
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:35,039
the god that what does he call it the

628
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:35,440
god

629
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:40,320
he said look it's all the same it's

630
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:42,880
it's go to a christian and he says oh

631
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:44,640
yeah i'll tell you about god i know all

632
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:46,159
about him because

633
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:48,640
i have this book because i go to this

634
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:49,360
guy and he's

635
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:51,360
dressed in all these robes and he allows

636
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:53,280
me to talk to god he tells me what god

637
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:55,200
is saying he tells me how to be

638
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:57,280
and then he says and then i go to i go i

639
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:58,880
go well that doesn't sound right so i go

640
00:23:01,909 --> 00:23:00,640
over to a muslim guy and you go what can

641
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,919
you tell me about god he goes oh i can

642
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:02,880
tell you everything

643
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:04,559
i got a guy he stands up there in the

644
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:05,919
front and he wears this robe and he

645
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:07,840
tells me just exactly what god is all

646
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:08,640
about

647
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:10,240
okay so then i go over to a jewish guy

648
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:11,679
and i go to synagogue and he goes

649
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:13,280
oh no i'll tell you what it's all about

650
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:15,039
here we have these books and then here

651
00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:16,400
we have these guys in robes

652
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:19,600
and they go tell us go tell us what god

653
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:20,240
says

654
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:23,520
and then you can follow what they say

655
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:26,400
this is again i mean i'm not saying it's

656
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:26,880
like

657
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:30,159
some brilliant insight but how much time

658
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:30,640
do we

659
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,480
spend placating people who have these

660
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:36,640
protected religious beliefs

661
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:39,679
that are clearly much more in sync with

662
00:23:44,149 --> 00:23:40,799
what we

663
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:44,159
understand to be uh cultish activities

664
00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:44,960
and i'm

665
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,799
we we don't know all the relationships

666
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:48,080
between those but

667
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:50,480
than anything else and yet we give them

668
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:52,159
their little spot in the square in the

669
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:53,760
public square and we say okay no go

670
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:54,799
ahead and talk and

671
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:57,039
and we won't ever really raise our voice

672
00:24:02,149 --> 00:23:59,520
about how absolutely ridiculous

673
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:02,159
your cosmology is because we'll let us

674
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,440
we'll let you talk

675
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,440
and if you look at what david ike is

676
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:07,279
really saying directly

677
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:11,039
he's advocating disintermediation right

678
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:14,559
he's saying yeah there's god go go

679
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:17,679
go there you don't need a book you don't

680
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:19,279
need an intermediary

681
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,159
you don't need anything if there is this

682
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:24,559
extended realm and if there is this

683
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:28,320
god head there go there

684
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:30,000
the other thing that i point out about

685
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:31,440
david ike and the reason we're talking

686
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:32,799
about i think we're talking about david

687
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:33,520
ike

688
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,640
is because this is someone who was

689
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:36,559
banned he was

690
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:41,520
wiped off of the electronic

691
00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:43,840
infrastructure that we live in banned

692
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:44,799
from youtube

693
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:47,760
banned from facebook banned from twitter

694
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:48,799
banned

695
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:50,559
greg if we were having this conversation

696
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:51,840
five years ago

697
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,679
we would not have even we would have

698
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:57,840
never believed it if one of the other of

699
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:59,679
us said oh yeah and then people will

700
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:01,840
just be banned

701
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,159
unilaterally banned across all these

702
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,039
quote unquote independent platforms

703
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:09,919
so david ike is banned and you know what

704
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:10,400
david

705
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:13,919
ike's message is in in this world that

706
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:14,799
we live in

707
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:17,679
with antifa and proud boys and black

708
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:18,799
lives matter

709
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:21,840
and guns in the street and riots

710
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:24,240
david ike's messages no don't go for any

711
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:25,360
of that it's about

712
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:28,320
love it's about seeing that we're all

713
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:29,520
connected

714
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:32,400
it's about not cutting off your thumb to

715
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:33,360
spite your

716
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:36,400
your fingers that's his message

717
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:38,960
that's his message it's all about love

718
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,640
acceptance forgiveness

719
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:43,200
and pursuit of the truth and this is

720
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:44,320
what's banned

721
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:48,559
say he got

722
00:25:55,269 --> 00:25:52,640
banned was because david sometimes is

723
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:57,990
good with the sciency part and even

724
00:26:02,070 --> 00:25:59,360
though he saw

725
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:02,080
the bigger picture of the pandemic for

726
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:04,320
what it is a pandemic

727
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:10,789
whirlpool of there is no virus kind of

728
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:11,360
thing

729
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:13,200
which is unfortunate because

730
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:14,640
scientifically

731
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:16,880
that's not a very sustainable position

732
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,039
it's kind of a flat earthy

733
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,360
kind of sciency kind of thing but he was

734
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:23,679
listening to the wrong people and

735
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:25,600
you know but i look at somebody like

736
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:27,360
david ike and i say

737
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:30,400
batting average hall of fame

738
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:32,559
hall of fame batting average gets so

739
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:33,600
much more stuff

740
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:36,000
so much more right so much more sooner

741
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:37,600
than anyone else

742
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:41,279
that that we need to give him

743
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:43,919
wiggle room for when he makes mistakes

744
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:44,960
and not not

745
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:46,720
forgive them and call him out like i did

746
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:47,919
in the interview i said david i don't

747
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:49,360
think you really mean that do you

748
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:52,240
you know but at the same time we have to

749
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:52,960
say

750
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:56,000
no this is this is a

751
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,039
major major important person

752
00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:01,120
and if we're going to ban someone let's

753
00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:03,039
ban frickin neil degrasse tyson for

754
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:04,000
standing up there and saying

755
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:05,520
consciousness is an illusion

756
00:27:08,870 --> 00:27:06,720
that's something somebody should be

757
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:08,880
banned for hey you want to ban people

758
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:11,200
i got a whole list of people we can ban

759
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:12,320
but i don't want to ban

760
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:15,760
anybody but that's i guess my

761
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:18,399
my take on david ike and why i think

762
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,679
he's so important

763
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:21,120
and you know the other thing that i'll

764
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:22,880
just throw and i'll shut up about it

765
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:30,950
okay so we're we're in an after

766
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:32,880
disclosure period here right folks

767
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:35,440
i mean we are a.d after disclosure new

768
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:36,559
york times

769
00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:38,640
every major news outlet now we've seen

770
00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:41,440
the videos finally they're admitting it

771
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:44,799
so we're after disclosure some people

772
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:47,200
haven't fully grocked that but we are

773
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:51,360
and who's piloting those

774
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:53,840
craft that are moving at unbelievable

775
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,760
speeds at g-forces that are impossible

776
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:57,760
for humans to survive

777
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:01,360
the e.t is clearly in play here so now

778
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:03,919
take like if you will the the the

779
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:05,600
accounts of you know i had this

780
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:08,799
woman on uh she's a professor from uh

781
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:10,640
i think montana state university her

782
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:12,559
name is artie six color clark and she

783
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,760
has kind of an unusual name because

784
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:15,440
she's native american

785
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,880
and she went around and collected all

786
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:19,440
these stories from native american

787
00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:20,080
people

788
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:21,760
not only united states but central

789
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:23,120
america south america

790
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:25,120
whole thing collects their stories and

791
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:26,559
she's an anthropologist right so she

792
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:27,919
knows how to collect stories and do it

793
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:30,240
does it in a scientific way you want to

794
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:31,120
hear about

795
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:33,520
shape-shifting all over the place you

796
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:34,880
want to hear about aliens

797
00:28:40,230 --> 00:28:37,840
all star people all over the place you

798
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:40,240
want to hear about reptilians

799
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:43,520
all over the place you want to hear

800
00:28:50,549 --> 00:28:47,440
about shape shifting reptilians

801
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:50,559
they're right there in her research

802
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:53,039
so you can dismiss her research that's

803
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:53,679
fine

804
00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:55,919
you can say she faked her research

805
00:28:59,350 --> 00:28:57,760
that's fine but you better go prove it

806
00:29:01,750 --> 00:28:59,360
she's a respected

807
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:01,760
academic a respected anthropologist who

808
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:03,840
seems to have done things correctly

809
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,640
but don't just because you're going

810
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:08,559
along with your buddies

811
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:12,320
don't scoff at this stuff until you've

812
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:14,880
looked at it or better yet go ahead and

813
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,000
scoff at it just

814
00:29:20,549 --> 00:29:18,720
follow whatever people are trying to jam

815
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:20,559
down your throat and tell you is the way

816
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:22,159
to think

817
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:26,789
well i was pretty interested to hear

818
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:28,720
your perspective on ike there because i

819
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:30,080
think we do agree

820
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:33,520
um to a greater extent um just to

821
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:34,159
backtrack

822
00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:37,919
slightly to uh bernardo

823
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:40,399
i've never met him personally but i have

824
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:41,440
found him to be

825
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:44,320
in every other way exactly as you say i

826
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:44,880
mean his

827
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:49,360
his research is incredible he's building

828
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:50,720
uh he's standing on the shoulders of

829
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:52,399
giants as i'm sure he did met himself

830
00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:52,799
but

831
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:54,399
i've never seen anyone bring it together

832
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:56,960
in this way and what he did

833
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,120
for his last not sorry last but one book

834
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,960
the idea of the world

835
00:30:04,149 --> 00:30:02,799
which he published all the chapters

836
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:04,159
separately

837
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:07,440
in peer-reviewed journals uh you know by

838
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:10,240
scientists they were all combed over and

839
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:11,600
gone through

840
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:14,880
uh every stone turned by um all sorts of

841
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:16,080
different scientific

842
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:18,559
uh bodies and publishing organizations

843
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:20,399
all manner of academia

844
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:23,360
approved for publication and once he had

845
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:24,720
achieved that and all these were all

846
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:26,640
separate publications

847
00:30:31,029 --> 00:30:29,200
he then brought them all together and

848
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:31,039
put them in one book

849
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:32,480
and basically was able to get a

850
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:34,480
scientifically rigorously scientifically

851
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:35,279
peer-reviewed

852
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:38,799
book in kind of under the radar so to

853
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:39,600
speak

854
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:42,480
so it was very clever and then i've

855
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:43,760
heard somebody say oh that was a bit

856
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:44,960
underhand you know because they didn't

857
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:46,000
know it was going to be brought what

858
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:47,279
difference does it make

859
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:48,880
each chapter has an idea and i mean you

860
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:51,200
could take all the get all the different

861
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:53,200
magazine articles uh photocopy them and

862
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:54,720
then staple them together and it's the

863
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:55,840
same thing

864
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,279
you know that's all he's done so i think

865
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,360
that was a brilliant move

866
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:01,919
when and i'd urge people to check out

867
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:02,480
your

868
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:05,919
interviews with him i've done many over

869
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:07,440
the years

870
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:10,080
if you're interested in the idea of

871
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,799
extended

872
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:12,240
consciousness of consciousness

873
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:14,240
consciousness being the underlying

874
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:14,960
reality

875
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:18,240
of the universe it basically it makes

876
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:19,039
sense

877
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:22,320
of so much of our experience and our

878
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:23,760
reality and everything that we see

879
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:26,080
around us with our senses and all the

880
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:27,679
tools and measuring devices that we have

881
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:29,519
that reach beyond our five senses

882
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:32,080
all of this the data coming in that we

883
00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:32,559
don't

884
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:34,080
understand and we can't quite put

885
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:36,720
together his work brings so many things

886
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:38,720
into a new light

887
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:42,159
when i read his article about nuclear

888
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,200
power and bill gates

889
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:45,679
i like you i've not had a chance to

890
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:46,960
speak to him about it

891
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,880
um i was a little bit mystified at first

892
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:52,799
because i kind of

893
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:54,799
got the thing about nuclear power i'm

894
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:56,880
not an advocate for it

895
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:59,120
but i do i have listened to serious

896
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,799
people who have said

897
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:02,720
if we want to keep the lights on in

898
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:04,799
industrial civilization in anything like

899
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:06,480
the forum we currently have going

900
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,279
forward

901
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:09,840
that may be the only alternative even

902
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:11,440
sure but greg the point really is

903
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:14,000
is bill gates i mean oh yeah exactly

904
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:15,679
which i was going to say the bill gates

905
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:16,320
thing

906
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:20,799
you see i take i i did take exception to

907
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:22,080
what he was saying i said oh

908
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,440
you can't just you know take bill gates

909
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:27,120
as like one little dimension of his

910
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:29,120
personality or look at bill gates bio on

911
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,559
his own website and base

912
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:32,559
say that that is bill gates so i agree

913
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:33,519
you know that was the point of

914
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:35,120
contention if there was anything in that

915
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:36,320
that i'd like to

916
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:37,840
to take up with bernardo it would be

917
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:40,000
that i'd imagine his response would be i

918
00:32:42,389 --> 00:32:41,039
think you're right i don't think he's a

919
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:42,399
conspiratorial

920
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:44,960
kind of guy but i'd imagine his response

921
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:47,279
would be something along the lines of

922
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:51,760
yes but you know everybody's either

923
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:55,120
attacking bill gates um or they're

924
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,880
in bill gates camp and you don't hear

925
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:58,559
them say anything other than agree with

926
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:59,360
bill gates

927
00:33:02,549 --> 00:33:01,039
so he probably sees himself as some kind

928
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:02,559
of impartial observer

929
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:04,640
and he's like wouldn't it be good if

930
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:05,679
bill gates

931
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:07,519
considered this this is a well you see a

932
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:10,080
lot of people open letter to the

933
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:11,279
american president you know

934
00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:13,039
open letter to vladimir putin or

935
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:14,399
whatever it happens to be

936
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:16,960
um yeah so did you ask bernardo about

937
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:17,919
kovid because

938
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:19,840
i kind of got into it a little bit with

939
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:21,200
him

940
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:24,799
it no it wasn't um where we were well i

941
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:25,360
did

942
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:27,760
in my last interview with him which was

943
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:29,120
freedom from fear

944
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:30,960
we touched on a roundabout way about

945
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:32,320
what's um

946
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:33,360
happening in the world but we know we

947
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:35,600
did not talk about the specifics of

948
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:38,880
the uh the pandemic you know origins how

949
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:40,000
that's playing out

950
00:33:43,669 --> 00:33:42,080
right so he's playing it from what i can

951
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:43,679
tell and tell me if i'm wrong

952
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,480
he is taking the covid 19 thing

953
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:50,640
straight on he i mean he's taking the

954
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:53,039
direct dose of the

955
00:34:01,029 --> 00:33:56,399
mainstream at this point to me

956
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:01,039
completely uh illegitimized

957
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:04,799
kind of thing i mean there is so much

958
00:34:08,069 --> 00:34:07,519
they've completely jury rigged the

959
00:34:11,389 --> 00:34:08,079
science

960
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:11,399
this is a global warming version

961
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:14,480
7.5 or whatever and bernardo

962
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:17,520
from what i see bernardo is not

963
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:20,159
showing the ability to kind of climb out

964
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:21,919
of that mess he is going to

965
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:23,599
it seems like he's going to stay right

966
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:26,320
down the path of

967
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:29,119
if you're if you're writing a letter

968
00:34:31,990 --> 00:34:30,639
with bill gates

969
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:32,000
open letter to bill gates and you're

970
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:33,839
fawning all over them then

971
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:35,839
you're lining up for the vaccine and

972
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:38,720
saying stick me and you know we'll

973
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:41,679
we'll have this kind of global you know

974
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:42,399
medical

975
00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:45,200
kind of system that they're that they're

976
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:45,839
going for

977
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:48,320
because let's have a little discussion

978
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:49,359
about this i don't want to get into the

979
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:51,119
whole culvet thing because it's a waste

980
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:51,440
of

981
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:55,359
think is interesting and

982
00:35:03,589 --> 00:34:59,680
is relevant is how we come to understand

983
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:03,599
science and spirituality and philosophy

984
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:05,040
and all the things that we're talking

985
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:07,200
about and i think in the case

986
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:10,320
of uh bill gates um

987
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:13,680
just like in the case of bill gates

988
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:16,800
we don't need to read too much into what

989
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:19,280
he's saying because he's saying directly

990
00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:22,240
you will all need to be vaccinated

991
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:24,320
multiple times and we will need to be

992
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:25,359
able to

993
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:26,640
his big thing is we're going to have to

994
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:28,400
be able to track who

995
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,240
is and who isn't so that we can control

996
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:34,640
that he wants the one world control of

997
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:35,839
those medical things

998
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:38,320
this is not some wild conspiracy this is

999
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:39,680
just exactly what he says

1000
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:42,880
and this is what he says i guess

1001
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,640
bernardo's letter was about nuclear

1002
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:46,800
power and you're not wrong

1003
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:50,400
uh to express you know your take on the

1004
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:51,760
weight yet but i guess his letter was

1005
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:52,960
about nuclear power

1006
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:57,040
and there's it's almost impossible at

1007
00:36:01,510 --> 00:35:58,160
any given time

1008
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:01,520
to tell what most people think

1009
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:04,160
about anything important because most

1010
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:04,800
people

1011
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:06,880
don't win depending on the context of

1012
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:08,720
their when they're speaking

1013
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:11,760
um expressing themselves will quite

1014
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:12,079
often

1015
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,200
say something other than what they

1016
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:15,440
actually think this makes it very

1017
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,320
complicated

1018
00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:18,560
um for example we just had a u.s

1019
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:19,520
election it

1020
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:21,280
made it very complicated for pollsters

1021
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:22,560
to actually establish

1022
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:24,960
what the picture was amongst the public

1023
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:27,440
so i know energetic correct let me

1024
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,000
introduce you

1025
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:30,480
it's just that the evidence suggests

1026
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:32,400
that that is not what happened

1027
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:35,440
the evidence suggested is that they

1028
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:37,760
intentionally allowed themselves to be

1029
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:39,599
deceived by the polls

1030
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:42,000
in the same way they were deceived by

1031
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:43,200
the polls

1032
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:45,520
four years ago and there's actually one

1033
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:47,680
guy who got the polls right

1034
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:52,240
consistently uh last round in 2016

1035
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:55,440
and was pretty much spot on uh

1036
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,560
this time as well a taffler group or i

1037
00:37:01,349 --> 00:37:00,640
forget the name of it but you can easily

1038
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:01,359
find it

1039
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:04,079
but i started i never followed it

1040
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:05,760
because i'm not into politics i'm

1041
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,960
apolitical

1042
00:37:09,990 --> 00:37:08,400
but i kind of followed it this year

1043
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:10,000
because of the science angle was

1044
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:11,680
interesting

1045
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:14,320
and what he pointed out is he said their

1046
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:15,599
methodology

1047
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:18,720
is flawed and the i and he said

1048
00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:20,400
specifically how it's flawed

1049
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:21,680
he said the idea that you're going to

1050
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:23,440
call somebody up

1051
00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:25,119
and they're going to answer a series of

1052
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:27,359
20 or 30 questions

1053
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:29,040
and during which they're going to be

1054
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,400
completely truthful

1055
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:33,200
with you and and transparent and then

1056
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:34,720
they're going to give you their answer

1057
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:36,640
on who they're going to vote for

1058
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:39,440
is a poor way to collect that data and

1059
00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:41,440
what he found is a much more effective

1060
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:42,160
way

1061
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:45,200
is to build in some degree of anonymity

1062
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,040
he said if you create a very short text

1063
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:49,200
with people you're much more likely to

1064
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:50,880
get a more accurate answer

1065
00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:52,720
and he has other techniques and other

1066
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:54,400
questions that he asks

1067
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:55,839
around this you know what will your

1068
00:38:02,150 --> 00:37:58,160
neighbor vote for but the proof

1069
00:38:04,670 --> 00:38:02,160
as they say is in the pudding this guy

1070
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:04,680
was much more accurate in predicting in

1071
00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:06,320
2016

1072
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:09,359
much more accurate in predicting in the

1073
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:11,760
midterm cycle in the united states in

1074
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:13,119
2018

1075
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:15,520
and much more accurate in predicting in

1076
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:16,880
2020

1077
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:20,320
he is in the business of doing polls

1078
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:22,400
that is his financial that's his

1079
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,520
livelihood

1080
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:25,359
so he it's not like you know and then

1081
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,640
people will get into this and they'll

1082
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:29,040
get political global he's a republican

1083
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:31,040
it doesn't matter what the what the heck

1084
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:32,240
he is

1085
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:33,920
he's either going to have people that

1086
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:35,839
are going to pay him to do polls

1087
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:37,280
or he's going to have people who are not

1088
00:38:41,349 --> 00:38:38,880
going to pay him to do polls

1089
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:41,359
and the fact that he's more accurate in

1090
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:42,720
his prediction

1091
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:45,599
is all we should really care about but

1092
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:46,000
what

1093
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,079
cnn and nbc

1094
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:56,480
and ap and all the rest of them they

1095
00:39:01,430 --> 00:38:57,440
weren't real

1096
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:01,440
polls they were just an attempt to

1097
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:03,760
influence the vote by offering an

1098
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:04,560
opinion

1099
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,880
otherwise they wouldn't so consistently

1100
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:08,880
be so

1101
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:12,800
unbelievably wrong oh yeah i mean i got

1102
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:13,359
onto that

1103
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:15,760
because i was talking about bernardo how

1104
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:17,520
do we know what he really thinks

1105
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:21,040
about the what's happening with covid

1106
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:23,200
and so you as you've confirmed you know

1107
00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:24,640
most people in certain

1108
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:27,280
contexts won't speak up about what they

1109
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:28,640
really think and that does

1110
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:30,400
i i think this is what you're driving

1111
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:33,280
that doesn't leave the door open

1112
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,880
um for people to be influenced by what

1113
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:38,640
they think other people think

1114
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:40,240
in the absence of other people saying

1115
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:42,079
what they really think if you see what i

1116
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,560
mean

1117
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:44,240
so you're being told oh well everybody

1118
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:46,480
thinks this everybody's going to vote

1119
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:47,359
for them oh

1120
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:49,520
you know the the pollsters have called

1121
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:50,800
for so and so

1122
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:52,480
or you know everybody knows that this

1123
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:54,079
idea the scientific idea is being

1124
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:55,280
debunked

1125
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:57,040
um everybody knows that this idea of

1126
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:58,560
lizard people is complete nonsense you

1127
00:40:00,950 --> 00:40:00,000
know it's been proved or whatever

1128
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:00,960
happens to be

1129
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:04,880
and people are influenced by that

1130
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:06,560
and because if you you know again if

1131
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:08,000
people don't want to just

1132
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:09,599
they don't want to stick out amongst

1133
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:11,359
their peers one of the reasons why they

1134
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:13,040
don't say what they think and if you

1135
00:40:16,309 --> 00:40:14,480
believe that you're in a minority and

1136
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:16,319
that's what people

1137
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:19,440
are encouraged to feel in many

1138
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:22,960
uh areas of of life is that

1139
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,839
if what you think doesn't fit with the

1140
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,599
the ruling paradigm

1141
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:29,599
then you will be in a minority even if

1142
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:36,630
right which is a major right which is

1143
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:38,160
most people yeah yeah

1144
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:40,800
but i mean back to you know bernardo and

1145
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:41,680
i don't want to

1146
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:42,960
certainly don't want to pick on bernard

1147
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:44,240
because we're both saying we respect the

1148
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:45,599
heck out of his work and

1149
00:40:49,510 --> 00:40:47,920
the brilliance of publishing all those

1150
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:49,520
peer-reviewed papers which i think is

1151
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:51,359
important some people want to crap on

1152
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:52,560
peer review and go

1153
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:55,839
oh yeah it's no go

1154
00:41:00,150 --> 00:40:58,480
it's it's better than the alternative

1155
00:41:01,109 --> 00:41:00,160
it's better than someone just spouting a

1156
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:01,119
bunch of crap

1157
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:03,839
that isn't reviewed by your peers and a

1158
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,960
lot of times on these peer-reviewed

1159
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:06,240
papers a lot of people don't

1160
00:41:14,230 --> 00:41:11,200
know the review part of the peer review

1161
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:14,240
is published so you can see what someone

1162
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:16,000
said and if someone is just

1163
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:18,720
going along and not doing deep analysis

1164
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:21,200
you can go read that so i respect

1165
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:23,280
in general the peer review process i

1166
00:41:27,750 --> 00:41:24,960
think it's a very important part

1167
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:27,760
of the scientific process and i respect

1168
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:29,040
uh

1169
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:32,720
his rigor in that in that regard

1170
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:34,079
what i'm pointing out and i'm making a

1171
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:35,520
big deal out of it because i think it is

1172
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:37,119
a huge deal

1173
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:38,480
is that if if people don't get this

1174
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:40,640
conspiratorial angle and bernardo

1175
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:42,319
doesn't fundamentally he doesn't get it

1176
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:43,760
he doesn't get it with

1177
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,720
consciousness he really doesn't get it

1178
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:50,000
he doesn't get

1179
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:53,440
that um that the system is not

1180
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:57,440
just willfully ignorant but it's gamed

1181
00:42:01,750 --> 00:41:59,599
it's gamed to look away from the

1182
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:01,760
evidence for extended consciousness

1183
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:05,040
it's game to look favorably on the

1184
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:05,760
evidence

1185
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:08,720
for scientific materialism and it's more

1186
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:09,760
than one

1187
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:12,000
funeral at a time it is one funeral at a

1188
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:12,960
time but it's

1189
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:15,040
more than one funeral at a time that's

1190
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:16,000
my hypothesis

1191
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:19,599
that is my opinion but bernardo is

1192
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,560
having none of that

1193
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,800
so that's okay he maybe he's right and

1194
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:23,920
maybe i'm wrong

1195
00:42:29,829 --> 00:42:27,520
but to draw that out and say

1196
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:29,839
which i am and i'm saying hey that's a

1197
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:31,599
big part of this

1198
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,640
getting to the bottom of the

1199
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:34,560
conspiratorial thing is a big part of it

1200
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:35,040
because it

1201
00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:37,200
always comes into play like we're just

1202
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:38,640
talking about polling and i get you're

1203
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:40,160
just using it as analogy

1204
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,160
but my point about the polling was

1205
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,240
there's a science behind that and if you

1206
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:46,480
go look at the science what it reveals

1207
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:49,839
is a conspiracy is that oh the poor guys

1208
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:52,319
that abc news they got it wrong again

1209
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:56,079
gosh darn it no no

1210
00:43:01,510 --> 00:42:59,280
they intentionally got it wrong

1211
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:01,520
and they never acknowledged it and they

1212
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:02,880
never admitted it

1213
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:06,240
and they continue to produce falsified

1214
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:09,440
data with a poor uh

1215
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,480
protocol for getting it and here's a guy

1216
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:14,079
who's saying i'm show you exactly where

1217
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:14,800
you're pro

1218
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,800
how it's wrong because my mind's always

1219
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:18,480
right so

1220
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:21,440
that is conspiratorial and if it's not

1221
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:21,839
made

1222
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:24,960
clear and explicit and talked about as a

1223
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:26,240
conspiracy

1224
00:43:31,270 --> 00:43:29,599
then it takes on a different meaning it

1225
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:31,280
takes on a well let's just read the la

1226
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:32,000
he's

1227
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:34,960
the bill gates letter is just about

1228
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:36,640
nuclear power

1229
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:39,520
you know i'll finish the rant here but i

1230
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,079
just did an interview with uh

1231
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:44,079
no i'll leave it at that because i go

1232
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:45,599
all of it on all these side drills

1233
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:49,520
i'll leave it at that well what you're

1234
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:51,760
driving at partly there is what i kind

1235
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:54,400
of want to get to um

1236
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:55,680
with what i'm doing actually at the

1237
00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:57,440
moment because i think we find ourselves

1238
00:44:03,109 --> 00:43:59,200
at a similar juncture

1239
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:03,119
um and that is if there

1240
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:06,640
if it is gained if all of this is game

1241
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:07,200
to what

1242
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:10,480
then it's like what uh how can we see

1243
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:11,839
that happening where should we look for

1244
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:13,040
what are the indications of that

1245
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:13,760
happening you know

1246
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:16,800
what the telltale signs and

1247
00:44:23,109 --> 00:44:20,000
as always what for to

1248
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:23,119
what end and i've um over the last few

1249
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:23,839
years

1250
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:26,240
i've done particularly good interviews

1251
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,960
with uh

1252
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:28,400
you may or may not be familiar with some

1253
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:29,760
of these guys sorry if they're in your

1254
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:30,800
archives and i've not

1255
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:34,079
uh stumbled across them um paul levy

1256
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:41,430
yeah a couple he's he's his book from

1257
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:43,280
years ago was dispelling watico he has

1258
00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:44,720
published since then

1259
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:46,960
um that's a night in sort of indigenous

1260
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:47,920
people's

1261
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:51,839
view of what you know of evil um

1262
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:54,480
recently a couple great researchers uh

1263
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:55,920
again u.s based

1264
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:58,800
uh colin e davis and melissa murray uh

1265
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:01,359
we've done great work on the shadow side

1266
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:04,720
um of a few

1267
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:08,400
of the species and on jungian psychology

1268
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:10,400
and psychoanalysis and also a guy i

1269
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,680
respect greatly

1270
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:13,520
a guy called mark stavish and all these

1271
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,720
people have been on with me recently

1272
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:16,319
actually since

1273
00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:17,760
the outbreak of the pandemic because i

1274
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:19,359
wanted to talk to them all about this

1275
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:20,960
and what were the deeper layers behind

1276
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:21,359
this

1277
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:24,400
and we've been talking shadow

1278
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:26,560
and we've because what i've been doing

1279
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:28,079
is what i've said a moment ago i've been

1280
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,880
trying to what

1281
00:45:31,829 --> 00:45:30,319
evidence are we looking for here what

1282
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:31,839
there's other layers going on here if

1283
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,599
we've got as far

1284
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:35,200
as with bernardo's work we got to a

1285
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:36,880
certain point and there's something else

1286
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:38,240
going on if there's still

1287
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,760
what's missing here what are we not

1288
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:41,280
seeing then

1289
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:42,480
what should we look for what are the

1290
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:44,640
signs and then what

1291
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:46,400
for can we just you know what what's

1292
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:52,790
well you know and uh i might not have

1293
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:54,480
interviewed paul levy i'm just familiar

1294
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,280
with that

1295
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:57,839
that book and i think i've i'd really

1296
00:46:02,069 --> 00:45:58,880
like to have mine so

1297
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:02,079
have you interviewed him yeah twice when

1298
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:03,680
to spelling what teco came out and then

1299
00:46:07,150 --> 00:46:05,599
more recently because

1300
00:46:08,710 --> 00:46:07,160
if you go to his website

1301
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:08,720
awakeningthedream.com he's got a whole

1302
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,240
series of articles just

1303
00:46:13,510 --> 00:46:12,079
coronavirus articles he's got a special

1304
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:13,520
subsection and that's

1305
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:16,800
all about the deep psychological levels

1306
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,400
here you know he because he takes a sort

1307
00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:20,720
of a jungian

1308
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:23,920
approach to this uh again paraphrasing

1309
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:26,160
jung as i did in my interview with

1310
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:28,000
bernardo actually uh

1311
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,599
more or less that which is denied

1312
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:33,599
within us you know within our

1313
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:34,800
subconscious within the

1314
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:38,240
psyche manifests itself in the world

1315
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:41,119
as an event and that's the the those are

1316
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:42,000
the dimensions of

1317
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,839
what we're undergoing now that i'm most

1318
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,839
interested in where is this coming from

1319
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:47,520
what does it mean because it isn't

1320
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:50,160
the literal reading of it you know 3d

1321
00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:51,119
world perspective

1322
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:52,560
there's a virus some people are getting

1323
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:54,400
sick and we're reacting to it

1324
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:57,599
that's that's a sideshow well see here's

1325
00:47:03,190 --> 00:46:59,040
the interesting part of that and

1326
00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:03,200
and we'll maybe sidestep partially

1327
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:05,599
the covid thing because we're all so

1328
00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:06,720
kind of

1329
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:09,520
burned out on the cycles with it but you

1330
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:11,440
know they said the same thing about

1331
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:14,880
um global warming right

1332
00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:18,880
so same thing you know jungian

1333
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:22,640
earth gaia revenge all that stuff

1334
00:47:26,069 --> 00:47:24,640
except science reveals that they're full

1335
00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:26,079
of [\h__\h] right

1336
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,640
there's no global warming we have one

1337
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:30,559
measure for global warming

1338
00:47:35,589 --> 00:47:32,880
it's sea level that's the only measure

1339
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:35,599
right that's the only measure that

1340
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:38,160
that's the only measure that they ever

1341
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:38,960
talked about

1342
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:40,720
as being meaningful all these islands

1343
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:42,079
are going to be flooded and stuff like

1344
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:42,480
that

1345
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:45,040
and then if you go and you know i think

1346
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:45,680
the best

1347
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:49,119
go-to person on this is probably

1348
00:47:53,109 --> 00:47:52,400
judith curry phd head of the climatology

1349
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:53,119
department at

1350
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:54,720
georgia tech university and i don't even

1351
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,839
know where you come down on global

1352
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,599
warming but

1353
00:48:01,910 --> 00:48:00,240
and she did this extensive kind of

1354
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,920
peer-reviewed analysis

1355
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:03,760
of sea level because sea level is the

1356
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:06,160
issue the ice is in the glass

1357
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:08,480
if the ice melts the level of the water

1358
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:10,160
in the glass goes up

1359
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:12,559
if you freeze it you put more than it

1360
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:13,760
goes down

1361
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:17,040
we can measure ice levels and water

1362
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:20,480
sea level levels for tens of thousands

1363
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:22,240
of years we just go to the ice core and

1364
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,760
we can get all that data

1365
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:25,599
they've gone up they've gone down

1366
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:27,359
they've been higher they've been lower

1367
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:28,720
they've been much lower but they've even

1368
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,040
been higher up to six feet

1369
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:33,839
but right around where you live and

1370
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:34,720
where i live

1371
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:37,520
you know they've measured sea levels for

1372
00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:39,359
hundreds of years

1373
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:42,079
they essentially have not changed they

1374
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,280
haven't changed

1375
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:45,520
because there hasn't been any global

1376
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:47,359
warming to speak of

1377
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:49,119
tiny bit but nothing enough to make a

1378
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:51,040
difference my point is

1379
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:52,960
the science and a lot of people are

1380
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:54,240
going to reject to that i know because

1381
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:54,880
they get all

1382
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:58,240
been out of shape the science suggests

1383
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:01,760
that it's not on solid footing the idea

1384
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:02,720
of

1385
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:06,000
man-made global warming due to carbon

1386
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:09,599
output and yet

1387
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:13,280
paul levy and those types

1388
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:16,240
were offering a jungian explanation for

1389
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:17,119
it

1390
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:19,920
so this is the this is the failing of

1391
00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:21,839
philosophy and i know he's not strictly

1392
00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:22,880
a philosopher

1393
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:25,599
but this is where where philosophy has

1394
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:26,640
failed

1395
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:30,160
they've been swamped by science

1396
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:32,640
they can't process the science and they

1397
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,599
know they can't

1398
00:49:37,589 --> 00:49:35,760
so they just throw up their hands and

1399
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:37,599
they randomly take one position or

1400
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:39,040
another on science

1401
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:42,400
and then they build some kind of

1402
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:46,640
understanding based on what is often

1403
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:49,200
crappy science that is very opinionated

1404
00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:50,640
that's my take so

1405
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:54,079
good what's your take well

1406
00:49:58,230 --> 00:49:56,559
on global warming clearly the climate

1407
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:58,240
changes so i don't like to use the word

1408
00:50:02,710 --> 00:49:59,839
global warming in fact

1409
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:02,720
lots of uh globalists didn't like people

1410
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:04,160
using that after a while because

1411
00:50:07,829 --> 00:50:06,480
when the temperature took a dive then it

1412
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,839
was an opportunity for people to say

1413
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:09,359
what global warming

1414
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:12,000
yes so the climate change is over long

1415
00:50:16,549 --> 00:50:13,920
periods of time we can see that you know

1416
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:16,559
records of that all over the earth and

1417
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:17,119
there

1418
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:20,319
even we have in the era of modern humans

1419
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:22,240
we know we have all the

1420
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:24,480
the myths and legends and anecdotal

1421
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:27,520
stories passed down to us about

1422
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:30,480
um at the ice ages and you know global

1423
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:31,280
flooding of the

1424
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:34,400
the flood the deluge is a global myth

1425
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:37,440
so it seems clear to me that uh that

1426
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:40,800
everything points to the large changes

1427
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:43,440
in climate and other geological factors

1428
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:43,839
they

1429
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:47,440
take place over long periods of time

1430
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:49,680
large scale changes in the earth

1431
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:51,359
generally don't take place

1432
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,559
very quickly i think that human activity

1433
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:56,880
can affect climate particularly locally

1434
00:50:59,990 --> 00:50:58,400
i think really definitely you can see

1435
00:51:01,510 --> 00:51:00,000
that when you go into uh if you go

1436
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:01,520
i go from here and go into london you

1437
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:03,040
know it's warmer straight away once we

1438
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:03,920
get in

1439
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:06,640
um and in terms of pollution as well i

1440
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:07,760
think a lot of pollution

1441
00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:09,599
in one you see like in china for example

1442
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:10,960
in concentrated area can definitely

1443
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,920
affect the climate

1444
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:13,680
but as far as the whole global picture

1445
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:15,599
goes i i don't the way it's presented i

1446
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:16,640
don't think

1447
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,760
is um is the case uh

1448
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:21,599
certainly as you say we'd be expecting

1449
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:23,359
to see some more evidence for it now but

1450
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:24,800
again that we could talk about that all

1451
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:26,000
day

1452
00:51:29,390 --> 00:51:28,400
but as far as you'd point you made about

1453
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,400
some other people offering

1454
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:31,200
interpretations

1455
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:34,319
of let's say great because you can you

1456
00:51:37,589 --> 00:51:34,800
remember

1457
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,599
the run-up to 2012 there was going to be

1458
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:38,880
this great

1459
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:41,040
earth change this consciousness shift

1460
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:42,720
that was going to happen and people were

1461
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:44,079
offering all sorts of interpretations

1462
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:45,839
about why it was going to happen

1463
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:47,280
some of them were scientific some of

1464
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:48,800
them were pseudo-scientific some of them

1465
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:50,400
are philosophical some of them were

1466
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:51,839
psychological

1467
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:53,440
uh psycho-spiritual there's all these

1468
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:55,119
people saying and this is the reason why

1469
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:56,720
this shift is happening and then nothing

1470
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:57,280
happened

1471
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:00,640
apparently um so i think

1472
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:02,240
that that's natural and if you have

1473
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:03,680
someone who

1474
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:05,200
and david i could certainly be counted

1475
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:06,720
in this camp if you have someone who's

1476
00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:08,400
bringing their

1477
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:10,400
perception to bear on the world around

1478
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:11,920
them and trying to interpret it

1479
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:14,240
and give a bit as they see a better

1480
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:16,240
reading of what's going on than

1481
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:18,559
we're mostly being offered of course

1482
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:19,520
they will

1483
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:21,040
because as you say not everyone's an

1484
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:22,559
expert in everything and david's been

1485
00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:23,200
guilty of this

1486
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:26,240
they will imply they will apply their

1487
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:28,319
their template or their interpretation

1488
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:29,280
to something that

1489
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:31,520
turns out to be on a false basis if you

1490
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:32,800
see what i mean

1491
00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:35,520
so not everyone who is interpreting

1492
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:36,960
interpreting uh

1493
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:39,839
global warming projections on a you know

1494
00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:40,160
a

1495
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:46,000
got

1496
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:47,359
that particular thing wrong or maybe

1497
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:48,800
they're inhabit in the habit of

1498
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:50,559
interpreting every single thing that

1499
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:51,760
occurs

1500
00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:54,880
in their consciousness through that lens

1501
00:52:57,990 --> 00:52:56,720
including i've often found including

1502
00:53:01,670 --> 00:52:58,000
people that do it

1503
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:01,680
on stuff that's incredibly

1504
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,720
uh culturally specific you know like

1505
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:06,640
here in the united states we have a

1506
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:07,760
complete

1507
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:11,040
you know uh egocentric kind of

1508
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:13,359
a view of our country so something will

1509
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:14,079
you know the whole

1510
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:15,839
world right now is going through an

1511
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:17,359
election crisis

1512
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:19,839
no it's really just in the united states

1513
00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:20,480
folks

1514
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:23,359
it's not the entire world there might be

1515
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:25,119
larger implications

1516
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:28,319
one could make but you know i mean

1517
00:53:32,630 --> 00:53:30,160
it just it's one of the annoying things

1518
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:32,640
for me particularly because

1519
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:34,880
you know back to the placebo effect kind

1520
00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:35,760
of thing

1521
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:37,599
and and back to the conspiratorial

1522
00:53:42,390 --> 00:53:39,040
things these

1523
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,400
things are being rigged into the system

1524
00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:44,400
and we're constantly being played

1525
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:47,839
so i just pull up on the you know

1526
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:52,240
deep psychology the jungian shadow side

1527
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:56,000
of covid19 pump the brakes minute

1528
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:58,480
let's figure out whether it was a virus

1529
00:54:02,230 --> 00:53:59,040
that was

1530
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:02,240
engineered in a bio weapons lab in hunan

1531
00:54:05,190 --> 00:54:02,640
let's

1532
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,200
establish whether that is true or not

1533
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:07,520
that might have a bearing on

1534
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:11,520
you know your whole thing about

1535
00:54:14,470 --> 00:54:13,040
deep psychology kind of thing you're

1536
00:54:15,750 --> 00:54:14,480
gonna have to work that into your into

1537
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:15,760
your speech there so

1538
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:19,599
give it a pause well i mean if if

1539
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:20,400
consciousness

1540
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,960
is the ground of being and everything's

1541
00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:24,000
within consciousness

1542
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:26,720
then what who knows what form that could

1543
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,119
take i don't see how that disallows

1544
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,359
um an engineered virus in wuhan that's

1545
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:33,119
such an event playing out

1546
00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:37,119
yeah but it doesn't it it is

1547
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:38,960
you can't get there from here right i

1548
00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:40,960
mean if you're going to say

1549
00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:43,760
look you know i i interviewed uh did you

1550
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:46,799
ever interview donald hoffman

1551
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:49,440
no no the name rings available he he is

1552
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:51,599
really a brilliant guy he's a caltech

1553
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:52,400
physicist

1554
00:55:01,270 --> 00:54:59,359
and highly respected um and he's

1555
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,280
somebody who kind of completely but

1556
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:03,599
politely kind of destroys the scientific

1557
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:05,680
materialism

1558
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:07,760
and when he and i talked we had an

1559
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:09,359
awesome moment

1560
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:10,720
when we were talking then about

1561
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:12,400
spirituality because he's really all

1562
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:13,760
about science you know and he's all

1563
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,040
about the numbers

1564
00:55:19,109 --> 00:55:17,760
and he said one day he was giving his

1565
00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:19,119
presentation to a

1566
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:21,599
relatively large group and talking about

1567
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:22,559
his

1568
00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:24,880
rigorous mathematical model for

1569
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:26,559
consciousness

1570
00:55:30,870 --> 00:55:28,079
and again this is a this is

1571
00:55:34,549 --> 00:55:30,880
consciousness beyond materialism

1572
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:34,559
and some guy set up and said yes but dr

1573
00:55:41,589 --> 00:55:38,000
hoffman the only language of

1574
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:41,599
god is silence

1575
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:44,880
everything else is ignorance

1576
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:48,720
and he said okay he said okay

1577
00:55:53,109 --> 00:55:52,480
actually i like that he said i go into

1578
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:53,119
silence

1579
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:56,160
every day i'm into meditation and if

1580
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:59,200
you were to stop there and not say

1581
00:56:02,870 --> 00:55:59,680
anything

1582
00:56:06,069 --> 00:56:02,880
else i could agree with you

1583
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:06,079
he said but invariably people who say

1584
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:07,280
those things

1585
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:10,880
then have a thousand other things to say

1586
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:13,119
and a thousand books to reference and

1587
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:14,640
all their great sages

1588
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:16,559
and they want to bring in all the quotes

1589
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:17,760
and they want to do

1590
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:21,280
anything other than be silent

1591
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:25,280
he said so if we are going to speak

1592
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:28,880
let's speak with precision now to dr

1593
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:29,680
hoffman

1594
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:33,599
that precision means mathematics

1595
00:56:38,230 --> 00:56:35,280
because he believes that mathematical

1596
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:38,240
models are elegantly precise

1597
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:39,680
and they are in some ways i don't think

1598
00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:41,200
they can capture everything but i get

1599
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:43,040
his point

1600
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:46,880
i want to say that to paul levy i want

1601
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:48,720
to say that to so many of these

1602
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:52,000
other jungian you know i'm

1603
00:56:57,910 --> 00:56:55,359
all about the imaginary uh no

1604
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:57,920
being imaginative and creative in all

1605
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:59,040
the possibilities

1606
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:00,880
the limitless possibilities within all

1607
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:03,040
the realms of consciousness

1608
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:06,000
but i am going to ask for precision and

1609
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:07,520
when you're wrong

1610
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:09,440
you have to be held accountable so if

1611
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:10,799
you go down the path

1612
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:14,240
of global warming and that's gaia's

1613
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:17,280
self-protection mechanism and it kicked

1614
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:17,839
in

1615
00:57:25,829 --> 00:57:23,040
wrong

1616
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:25,839
then you got to take it on the chin and

1617
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:27,119
i'm not saying you craig because you

1618
00:57:29,349 --> 00:57:27,839
didn't do that

1619
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:29,359
but i'm saying you got to take it on the

1620
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:31,280
chin you can't keep spinning it

1621
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:33,359
like maybe it's true maybe it's not same

1622
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:34,319
thing with covet

1623
00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:35,760
if you want to stick your neck out there

1624
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:38,720
and say that gaia produced

1625
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:41,920
a virus that would you know do what it

1626
00:57:47,510 --> 00:57:44,240
has done to the population or whatever

1627
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:47,520
that's fine but if we later find out

1628
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:50,480
and prove that it's a pandemic then you

1629
00:57:54,309 --> 00:57:51,599
got to take one on the chin

1630
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:54,319
you got to step aside and go i was wrong

1631
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:55,440
you got a course correct

1632
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:58,319
you got to own your thing again that's

1633
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:59,680
not directly at you because you didn't

1634
00:58:02,789 --> 00:58:00,799
say any of that stuff but

1635
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:02,799
i i'm being kind of provocative i know

1636
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:03,839
i'm poking oh yeah i know

1637
00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:07,280
that that's fine if it was a pandemic

1638
00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:10,400
that still wouldn't mean ultimately uh

1639
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:11,680
if you drill down deep

1640
00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:14,160
deep enough that it wasn't you know gaia

1641
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:14,960
because

1642
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:17,599
we get a guy as there was one right so

1643
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:19,200
let's so my point is

1644
00:58:25,109 --> 00:58:22,960
take gaia out of it quit saying anything

1645
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:25,119
about gaia because we can't say anything

1646
00:58:28,390 --> 00:58:27,440
meaningful about gaia we don't know what

1647
00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:28,400
that means

1648
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:30,480
so take it out of the discussion when

1649
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:31,920
you as soon as you say well it could be

1650
00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:33,280
or could not be then you can't say

1651
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:36,960
anything about it so about precision

1652
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:38,400
then what does that look like because

1653
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:41,119
that sound that sounds just like science

1654
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:44,720
um and doesn't leave room for

1655
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:45,920
anything else because you know there's

1656
00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:48,640
that old adage again you either

1657
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:51,200
know something or you don't know

1658
00:58:53,109 --> 00:58:51,839
something

1659
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:53,119
you know there's no question about

1660
00:58:56,470 --> 00:58:54,880
belief and in which case

1661
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,480
we we know nothing really and i know

1662
00:58:59,670 --> 00:58:58,079
that's that's not like that's a bit of a

1663
00:59:00,710 --> 00:58:59,680
cop-out as well but it's just something

1664
00:59:03,109 --> 00:59:00,720
to think about

1665
00:59:04,069 --> 00:59:03,119
so we say what does precision look like

1666
00:59:05,270 --> 00:59:04,079
in different disciplines

1667
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:05,280
what was it you know we're talking about

1668
00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:07,359
science philosophy and religion and

1669
00:59:11,190 --> 00:59:09,440
different different modes of uh of

1670
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:11,200
apprehending reality

1671
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:15,280
so when you say precise um

1672
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:18,319
you know does that look different in in

1673
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:20,240
different contexts or is it always more

1674
00:59:24,309 --> 00:59:22,079
or less the same thing

1675
00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:24,319
i think that's an awesomely beautiful

1676
00:59:28,589 --> 00:59:26,079
question

1677
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:28,599
to donald hoffman precision means

1678
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:30,079
mathematics

1679
00:59:34,789 --> 00:59:33,200
he's clear about that it doesn't mean

1680
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:34,799
that to me

1681
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:37,200
i i i you know we had an interesting

1682
00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:37,920
chat

1683
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:40,079
both before and after the interview with

1684
00:59:43,990 --> 00:59:41,359
don hoffman said

1685
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:44,000
how precise is that song that brought

1686
00:59:50,710 --> 00:59:48,400
you to tears it's precise as hell man

1687
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:50,720
it reached into your heart and brought

1688
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:52,000
you to

1689
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:53,839
the depths of your humanness that's

1690
00:59:57,109 --> 00:59:55,920
pretty freaking precise

1691
00:59:59,430 --> 00:59:57,119
doesn't have anything to do with

1692
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:59,440
mathematics how precise is the

1693
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:01,119
philosopher that points

1694
01:00:08,549 --> 01:00:05,680
out the logical impossibility

1695
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:08,559
of nihilism that's pretty [\h__\h]

1696
01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:10,319
precise to me

1697
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:13,599
so the the point really is just

1698
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:15,040
there's a lot of different ways to be

1699
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:17,040
precise but there's

1700
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:20,640
many many more ways to be imprecise and

1701
01:00:24,549 --> 01:00:23,680
that's what i'm kind of fighting against

1702
01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:24,559
let's let's

1703
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:28,480
i'm all in it let's engage but let's

1704
01:00:34,069 --> 01:00:32,160
you know be willing to kind of

1705
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:34,079
kind of go at it a little bit in order

1706
01:00:37,990 --> 01:00:35,680
to get to a little bit of

1707
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:38,000
precision you know the catchphrase for

1708
01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:39,680
skeptico is

1709
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:43,680
inquiry to perpetuate doubt

1710
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:46,559
i think doubt is a very spiritual thing

1711
01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:49,760
i think doubt is what i constantly want

1712
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:51,920
to move towards because in moving

1713
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:53,280
towards doubt

1714
01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:56,559
i find myself settling in on things that

1715
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,599
feel more like

1716
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:01,440
something i would call truth and i know

1717
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:03,200
there isn't really anything called truth

1718
01:01:10,309 --> 01:01:06,319
but it nudges me in that direction

1719
01:01:11,990 --> 01:01:10,319
and can you have precise doubt

1720
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:12,000
uh in in all the ways we're talking

1721
01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:14,240
about here right i mean uh

1722
01:01:20,549 --> 01:01:17,920
uh hoffman can precise doubt

1723
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:20,559
absolutely his math says your your

1724
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:22,079
equation doesn't work

1725
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:23,520
the left side doesn't equal the right

1726
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:25,200
size i doubt it

1727
01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:28,240
right a mathematician doubts all the

1728
01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:28,960
time

1729
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:31,839
a a a good philosopher will present a

1730
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:33,200
logical argument

1731
01:01:37,829 --> 01:01:35,520
that is all about doubt we'll say i

1732
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:37,839
doubt your conclusion because you're

1733
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:39,359
what do they say the antecedent present

1734
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:46,710
so precision isn't um like a

1735
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:50,720
sort of doesn't demand certainty

1736
01:01:53,750 --> 01:01:52,319
because what is that what i was saying

1737
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:53,760
earlier about knowing

1738
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:56,000
not knowledge and belief the gap between

1739
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:57,680
the two

1740
01:02:00,789 --> 01:01:59,200
because what can we be certain about

1741
01:02:01,829 --> 01:02:00,799
otherwise what if we can be certain

1742
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:01,839
about things and what

1743
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:04,960
are you and i doing yeah i think

1744
01:02:12,309 --> 01:02:11,589
i don't think it's our lot certainty

1745
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:12,319
really

1746
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:15,440
not a lot i like i well put

1747
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:18,880
yes when when you know one of the things

1748
01:02:22,069 --> 01:02:20,400
one of the areas of science that's

1749
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:22,079
driven me is the near-death experience

1750
01:02:24,950 --> 01:02:23,440
science and we both just interviewed

1751
01:02:26,150 --> 01:02:24,960
david ditchfield that's another one we

1752
01:02:28,549 --> 01:02:26,160
could talk about

1753
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:28,559
what that what we took away from that

1754
01:02:32,309 --> 01:02:30,640
who had a near-death experience

1755
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:32,319
goddess i always liked his story how he

1756
01:02:37,270 --> 01:02:34,720
got his jacket caught on the train

1757
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:37,280
as he was kissing his girlfriend goodbye

1758
01:02:39,910 --> 01:02:39,280
it's like is that the ultimate fear that

1759
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:39,920
we all

1760
01:02:43,109 --> 01:02:41,760
have you know being dragged under the

1761
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:43,119
train but

1762
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:45,920
the near-death experiencers and other

1763
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,960
people in this extended realm

1764
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:51,119
what i don't know about you greg but

1765
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:52,319
what they have told me

1766
01:02:57,510 --> 01:02:55,760
is that is a state of no doubt but it's

1767
01:03:00,069 --> 01:02:57,520
completely different

1768
01:03:00,870 --> 01:03:00,079
than the space the headspace that we're

1769
01:03:02,950 --> 01:03:00,880
in here

1770
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:02,960
and a lot of times when they come back

1771
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:05,520
they then are in this fog again

1772
01:03:12,069 --> 01:03:08,880
where it doesn't quite sync up

1773
01:03:15,109 --> 01:03:12,079
but when they were there in the light

1774
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:15,119
in the love they had no

1775
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:17,440
doubt but and that's where i take what

1776
01:03:21,829 --> 01:03:19,359
you said it's not our lot

1777
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:21,839
it's not our lot in this existence to

1778
01:03:25,589 --> 01:03:23,119
have no doubt

1779
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,599
and be you know functioning at the

1780
01:03:30,549 --> 01:03:27,039
highest level functioning at the highest

1781
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:30,559
level i think down here is having doubt

1782
01:03:33,829 --> 01:03:33,039
well i love that point you just made

1783
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:33,839
having

1784
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:36,640
that certainty experienced by people

1785
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:37,119
like

1786
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:38,960
david you know near death experiences or

1787
01:03:41,910 --> 01:03:40,880
as i might just call it a death

1788
01:03:45,510 --> 01:03:41,920
experience

1789
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:45,520
and they if they come back to the place

1790
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:46,000
we

1791
01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:47,920
find ourselves sharing at the minute

1792
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:49,520
they bring some of that

1793
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,359
certainty with them and then it begins

1794
01:03:54,870 --> 01:03:53,520
to become on the doubt creeps and again

1795
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:54,880
becomes a bit uncertain but they still

1796
01:03:57,670 --> 01:03:55,839
have to do

1797
01:03:59,270 --> 01:03:57,680
the spark of that certainty and that's

1798
01:04:00,309 --> 01:03:59,280
what motivates people quite often to

1799
01:04:03,270 --> 01:04:00,319
change

1800
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:03,280
how they engage with with this reality i

1801
01:04:06,230 --> 01:04:04,480
think given the point we've

1802
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:06,240
talked ourselves to today it might be a

1803
01:04:09,510 --> 01:04:08,000
good point to break off

1804
01:04:12,150 --> 01:04:09,520
i really hope we can pick this up in the

1805
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:12,160
near future not least of which because i

1806
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:14,960
want to get into the concept and the

1807
01:04:18,150 --> 01:04:15,680
reality of

1808
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:18,160
evil what your aforementioned book

1809
01:04:21,910 --> 01:04:19,200
brings together

1810
01:04:24,309 --> 01:04:21,920
through the the lens of many of your

1811
01:04:26,230 --> 01:04:24,319
guests i want to talk about

1812
01:04:27,910 --> 01:04:26,240
the system being gamed i want to talk

1813
01:04:29,510 --> 01:04:27,920
about things being rigged about being

1814
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:29,520
skewed and twisted in certain

1815
01:04:32,549 --> 01:04:31,039
certain direction i want to talk about

1816
01:04:35,589 --> 01:04:32,559
our attention being

1817
01:04:37,349 --> 01:04:35,599
drawn away elsewhere look don't look at

1818
01:04:40,470 --> 01:04:37,359
that look over here i want to talk

1819
01:04:43,589 --> 01:04:40,480
about agendas so

1820
01:04:45,270 --> 01:04:43,599
um yeah if you're happy to leave it at

1821
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:45,280
that for today i hope we can

1822
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:48,160
pick it up again in the future um if you

1823
01:04:50,549 --> 01:04:49,200
are

1824
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:50,559
give us have you got any closing

1825
01:04:55,029 --> 01:04:52,720
thoughts otherwise

1826
01:04:56,710 --> 01:04:55,039
tell listeners about your website where

1827
01:04:58,230 --> 01:04:56,720
they can get the book anything else they

1828
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:58,240
need to know

1829
01:05:02,710 --> 01:05:00,960
well i definitely am super excited about

1830
01:05:03,270 --> 01:05:02,720
continuing the dialogue i like how you

1831
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:03,280
teed up

1832
01:05:07,750 --> 01:05:05,760
part two so we'll kind of leave it there

1833
01:05:08,309 --> 01:05:07,760
me skeptical just have to spell it with

1834
01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:08,319
a ko

1835
01:05:12,549 --> 01:05:10,480
on the end and you'll find all my good

1836
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:12,559
stuff thanks a lot for doing this

1837
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:16,319
and i i really like uh where we came to

1838
01:05:20,710 --> 01:05:18,880
on a couple of places there and

1839
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:20,720
i like that we don't have to agree but i

1840
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:22,720
feel like we're moving towards a space

1841
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:24,880
here that is really

1842
01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:28,160
under under uh explored in terms of

1843
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:29,280
these kind of

1844
01:05:32,549 --> 01:05:31,200
dialogues so yeah let's definitely do it

1845
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:32,559
again and i mean

1846
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:34,240
this is something i'd love to put out on

1847
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:37,119
skeptico 2. both part one and part two

1848
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:39,119
of these uh of these dialogues if that's

1849
01:05:43,510 --> 01:05:40,960
okay with you